there's only so much you can miss / before we both collide

[hardparade]

I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY?

Or, a really ridiculous idea.

Either way, it was brought about by this interview with The Kills. They're asked how they can be so sexual even though they split up. (I love it when they're asked if they're a couple and stuff, it's so interesting to analyse their reactions.) Anyway, Jamie's like "We were never lovers" and the interviewer is like "Never?" and they're both like "Mm-mm, never" and then there's a pause, and Jamie goes "So...that's why." And then Alison cracks up and there's awkward laughter all round. (If you just want to watch that bit, there are little markers you can hover over to see which question is asked at each timestamp.)

This kind of reveals something about how Jamie sees the two of them and their sexuality, right? ...Right?


Because, like, okay. Jamie is stating that they can be sexual together because they have never been lovers. WHICH IS AN ODD THING TO SAY. Because if they had, at one point, been lovers, they could have been sexual together back then, surely? It's like he believes that if they DID become lovers, they wouldn't be able to be sexual onstage anymore—and like, maybe not even just if they became lovers and then split up, but full stop. Like he believes the only reason he's able to behave that way with Alison is because they've never been sexual irl. Which goes a little extra way towards explaining his resistance to being with her—like, he loves the onstage sexuality so much, he's afraid of losing that. It might not work in real life, so he's not going to risk throwing what they DO have away, if that makes sense?

So anyway I was thinking through all of that for a little while and trying to make sense of Jamie's weird, denial-addled brain, and I knew I was missing something else that the quote implies, and then it just HIT ME and I was like....woaaaah hold up.

BECAUSE THEY ARE NO LONGER SEXUAL ONSTAGE. And if my ridiculous dissection of Jamie's words is correct—doesn't that sort of imply that they are or have been lovers?

It's sort of like—man, this is a dumb example but it's all I can think of, you know in Friends when Chandler's dating Kathy? Who I still can't believe was played by Paget Brewster, but anyway—she's an actress, and she has a sex scene in this play she's doing, and Chandler's all freaked out, but Joey says it's fine because as long as there's passion onstage, they're not doing it in real life. And he warns him that as soon as the spark disappears onstage, that means it's transferred over and they're probably doing it for real. Which does make legitimate sense as a theory. (Although I might have bits of it wrong, it's been a long time since I saw the episode because STUPID E4 STOPPED SHOWING FRIENDS.)

Idk, idk, it doesn't make sense 100% for The Kills because that's actually a fairly recent interview, so the sexual tension onstage had already disappeared, and obviously Jamie's been with Kate all this time—but I just literally NEVER CONSIDERED this side of things. I always figured that the lack of sexual tension onstage meant something NEGATIVE about their real life relationship, but how fascinating would it be if it actually meant they were having sex for real now? Or, at the very least, that they did it ONCE and then decided it was a mistake, and the only thing it ruined was their dynamic onstage?

I guess it would be like—all the stuff onstage came from the fact that there was tension between them and all this desperate desire to be sexual with each other and that was the only way they could be, and if they started actually having sex there wouldn't be any mystery to it anymore and they wouldn't NEED the stage stuff. OR, suddenly they're much more aware of the stage dynamic than they used to be—like before, it didn't matter if people thought they were fucking because they weren't, but now they ARE and it has to be kept a secret.

Does this make sense to anyone but me? I am probably just grasping at straws because I'm just so heartbroken about the way they act onstage now. I mean, a lot of the time Jamie even angles his microphone so he's singing away from Alison in a way that just seems so deliberate. It's not like they never ever look at each other or touch each other, but it's SO much less than it used to be, and I don't understand why no one else seems to be noticing this stuff. Even though it would probably be HORRIBLY awkward, I just wish one interviewer would be like "yo guys, what happened to all that pseudo-sex you used to have?"

And I mean, it goes without saying that I want fic. It's ridiculous how many Kills/Dead Weather related ideas I have right now, but this is definitely being added to a list.

I got really excited when I saw that they'd started playing 'Last Day of Magic' again, because that's one of the main ones they always used to get intense about, but I mean, compare this performance from yesterday with this one from 2008. At 2:18 Alison approaches Jamie and he literally like, darts away from her. IT MAKES ME WANT TO CRY. AND THAT'S JUST ONE TINY EXAMPLE.

The rest of the interview I linked to up top is pretty cute/interesting by the way—they joke around a bit and are adorable, but I also get a vibe like they're not quite on the same wavelength with the questions. Plus there's the bit where Jamie goes on and on about things crumbling and decaying, and how good it is when things come to an end and rot (wtf, Jamie?), and then there's a long pause and the interviewer wants Alison's opinion and she's like *over-the-top smile* "...I think he answered it pretty well."

:'(

Anyway, I'll leave you with a picture, for your time:


I can't even really go 'aww' at this kind of thing anymore, it just makes me want to hit things.


They really do drive me crazy sometimes. MAKE SENSE.

Comments

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

Auuuuugh all of this makes so much sense and I HATE that it makes so much sense because it is the SADDEST THING IN THE WORLD. To find that sort of connection TWICE and have it end up this way...it puts a lot of weight behind that "I need to find a Jack or a Jamie but single" comment of hers. :( I really don't want to believe any of it but it does add up.

They never recorded that song at all! Someone in the crowd did, so they weren't even intending for it to be heard by anyone but those people. That's reeeally interesting to me because it's not something they'd usually do. You're right about it being so OBVIOUSLY a love song when they've said they try not to be like that, too. Actually, that's interesting because most of Blood Pressures reads like "had my love and now it's gone" even though it SHOULDN'T because half of it was written by Jamie who was engaged at the time of writing.

I can definitely imagine the sex stopping when Kate came into the picture - like maybe it wasn't that Jamie was just SO taken with her from the beginning, but they started seeing each other and he felt that being with her would be a less intense/scary option than staying with Alison, and basically he was just in denial about the strength of his Alison feelings and probably trying to be like "okay, that happened and it was a mistake, now I'm going to have a real relationship".

Your idea of the Jack scenario is basically what I think sometimes too...like I said, I still don't WANT to believe any of it, but...yeah. That's actually how I wrote things going down in my really long Kills fic, basically, without giving it too much thought - it just happened, as if I sort of always knew that's how would've gone. It absolutely breaks my heart to think of it being a repeat of something that happened with Jamie though. It is so believable because she IS that masochistic, and she's been pretty in denial about her feelings for Jamie too, so it would make sense that she wouldn't even make the connection and just project like you said. (That parallel would work so well in the comparison fic you mentioned!)

It's very strange to me, though, the idea that Jamie and Alison could sleep together and NOT stay together. I guess I had this idealistic view that it would solve everything, because the main thing standing in the way is their denial (...okay, Jamie's) and I figured that sleeping together would break that denial down. But I guess it's so ridiculously strong that he might still fight against the idea even if something DID happen?

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

It's true that if they became an actual couple their relationship would be RIDICULOUSLY intense, it seems like they're genuinely just SCARED of it. It is understandable because it would be such a huge risk to take, if it ended up not working out or messing with the way they make art, but - ughhh I feel like if they just got over the fear and the denial, it could be amazing.

I am sort of fascinated by Jamie's songs on the album and the way they seem very focused on loss, when you'd think...I don't know, that being in a secure relationship while writing the album, it might be different. He has said that he's usually autobiographical with his songs and it was hard this time because of his relationship being in the public eye etc. But he's clearly not singing as a character, particularly not in Wild Charms. Wild Charms and DNA are the most interesting ones imo because they sort of complement each other, and they've said that they're like two sides of the same story, but Jamie wrote them both, so I think that means that Wild Charms is the pessimistic side and DNA is the side saying it's gonna be okay ('we will not be moved by it').

I heard that at one gig, before DNA, Jamie said it was a 'song for his wife' which HAS to be bullshit unless he's calling Alison his wife, because that is NOT A SONG FOR SOMEONE YOU'RE MARRIED TO? Singing about having had 'wild charms' for someone in the past and your fire burning them out and fate custard-pieing you? :|

I agree that the fire metaphor is interesting, and that he seems to be taking the blame. Like he's saying that his feelings were once strong and that through his denial he forced them away to the extent that they literally disappeared. Or that the passion they had was so powerful that it self-destructed because it sort of HAD to.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD THAT VIDEO, I'M GOING TO CRY. I never saw that before. My God. See, that song has always been weird to me. I was initially leaning towards it being about Jamie because I didn't like to think of her having such genuine feelings for Jack, the kind that would lead to a song like that, but it still didn't quite add up because that would involve her basically telling Jamie her true feelings in a really obvious/final way. So. Probably about Jack. I don't know why I don't like that, I have such weird issues with that pairing. I guess it's just very clear to me that his feelings were never as strong as hers, whereas I believe Jamie's ARE and he's just in denial of them.

Didn't Jamie write Baby Says? Which...actually, adds a whole extra level of INTERESTING to the lyrics that I never thought about before. I never thought of the 'she' being Alison, and it didn't make sense for it to be Kate, and suddenly they make a whole load of sense. HOW INTERESTING IS THE IDEA OF JAMIE WRITING A SONG ABOUT ALISON AND JACK. I wonder who has the 'silver curls' though, that's always bugged me.

Oooh, I never really analysed You Don't Own The Road either, and that totally makes sense. Especially that line. It is like the whole song is her saying she's gonna recover from this, and almost like she's saying he's so conceited that he probably thinks everything she does is for him or because of him, and it's NOT, you know?

I actually have a document on my computer with the tracklisting of Blood Pressures and who wrote what, because I wanted to keep track of it, and the only songs I don't know about are Heart Is A Beating Drum, Nail In My Coffin, and Damned If She Do. Two of those are Alison's and one is Jamie's (Jamie wrote six altogether and she wrote five, so it works out that way). I think Nail In My Coffin is probably an Alison one because it sounds like she's saying she can't go through what she went through with Jamie all over again with Jack.

Man, now I'm just feverishly reading all the lyrics with a new perspective, sorry. I was leaning towards Jamie for Heart Is A Beating Drum and it totally sounds like another song directed at Alison and Jack now - I always thought the 'all the noise and hot crossed fangs you, you got in you' sounded like a reference to the changes in her voice since TDW which he's talked about before. And then 'send your love on a rampage/give her everything you've got/and when you come to hate her/show her more than just a spark' could be directed at Jack? And then references to feeling like she's been there so many times before - like he recognises the pattern. And Damned If She Do reads like Alison analyzing herself in the third person again, I think.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

OH GOD I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT. I'M DOING THE TEARS-IN-MY-EYES HEART-CLUTCHING AGAIN. Just that moment of realisation that that's what they're singing about...and then the fact that Alison ends up singing the same lyrics Jamie wrote about her. Oddly enough, I'm rewatching some interviews right now and just as I got your comment, they were talking about their psychic songwriting abilities and Jamie was saying it's good because you don't have to talk about it. And he's talking about music rather than lyrics, but even so. I imagine they didn't ever sit down and go "is this about-?" They just knew.

OMG THE DRUM THING. IT'S ALL FALLING INTO PLACE. That's not silly, that totally makes sense. And yesss, I was going to quote that line too, because it totally sounds like he's referencing the fact that something has happened AGAIN and that she shouldn't blame love in general, she's just falling for the wrong people. I also thought that the refrain at the end of DNA sounds like it's from Jamie to Alison, the 'love love love til you've got no love around you', like she wears herself out loving the wrong people and doesn't get anything in return, and then 'dance dance dance til there's no one left you hound you' sounds like...don't let anyone get on your case about it, just keep going, you know?

What do you make of Satellite and Pots And Pans? Jamie said Satellite was inspired by a phone call from Kate when the signal kept going, but I've never been convinced because he said he was on tour at the time, which means he would've written it waaay before they technically started writing the album. It sounds to me like it's about Alison being away from him - he also said it was sort of a nightmare about losing someone physically, and there's all the 'don't take her' stuff, and obviously they were been talking on the phone a lot too while she was on tour.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

I wonder if she would've told him outright about the Jack thing, or if it was just this unspoken knowledge. I really don't know, 'cause I can't imagine her just TELLING him what was going on. I can imagine him figuring it out from the performances though. And, that's another thing - if he did that, then surely that would make him realise the way he and Alison come across onstage as well? He did say that watching her share the mic with Jack was like an 'out of body experience' and I always wondered if it shocked him into accepting that there was something more to his (Jamie's) relationship with her than he thought. (Assuming nothing had happened between them in the past.) Like, if he saw the way Alison looked at Jack onstage and recognised that it was the same as the way she looks at HIM onstage, and then he found out that Alison did indeed have feelings for Jack...he kinda wouldn't be able to ignore it.

They must've meant Satellite because otherwise it just makes NO sense to me. Oh, I'd forgotten that bit in the documentary! That does make sense then. I feel like it must still have something of a connection to Alison just because of the time she was away from him - like, even if it wasn't written with that in mind, he might still think of it when he sings it. Or it still seemed relevant around Blood Pressures time because of Alison being away.

Pots And Pans sounds like it's about Jack to me too. There's something almost threatening about it, but it's more like threatening to give up on something rather than to take action. Like, "I literally don't have the energy to do this anymore." And I never thought it was about Jamie for the same reason as you - that it seems too final. That's why it never felt right for The Last Goodbye to be about Jamie, either. Because I believe she still has hope that one day it might work out for them, and with Jack I think it's clear that she's given up. It makes me wonder if TDW will make any more music now, actually.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

It makes sense that they'd take a break, though, seeing as they were churning out music like CRAZY PEOPLE. I don't know. It is interesting the way that everything seemed to happen at the end of the tour though. I hadn't watched the iTunes festival video! Idk why. It does seem pretty genial, which is interesting, but...idk, it's been a while and they've probably sort of come to terms with everything. I mean, maybe they won't make music together again, but maybe they've decided to try and move past it because the music is more important than past mistakes or whatever. I'm sure that if they perform as TDW again it won't be quite the same though, in terms of sexual tension. Which is so SAD to me because that is like my favourite thing, god dammit, WHY DOES IT HAVE TO DISAPPEAR FROM BOTH BANDS? STUPID JAMIE. STUPID JACK.

*cough* Anyway. Yeah, you're right, they probably did talk about it. In my fic, I just have Jamie sort of figure it out and there's some silent acknowledgement, and he comforts her without really saying anything, you know? I can imagine that irl she might want to actually talk it through and angst over it to him, though, and he would just have to deal with it - I mean, he would want to comfort her, but he would hate the fact that he HAD to, like the reason for it, if that makes sense? Now I want fic where he goes and yells at Jack for breaking her heart or something, which is such a cliché, but unf.

Maybe THAT could be an interesting start to a threesome fic...

ALSO I just posted the ridiculous incestuous AU, so you might want to check that out. UGH I'm worried it's just really stupid, but I thought I would post it and get it over with.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

OMFG HOLD UP I JUST HAD A REVELATION - you know we were talking about Baby Says being about Alison and Jack? THE CLUE IS IN THE TITLE AGAIN. BABY. LIKE BABY RUTHLESS. GAH I CANNOT HANDLE THIS. !!!

Right. *attempts to contain self* You're so lucky you got to see The Dead Weather! Especially if they don't tour again or the sexual tension disappears completely.

SRSLY WHAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. I mean, okay, we've analysed what their problems are, but STILL. She is so incredible and it's not like they don't see that, so I just don't understand. Especially with Jack, to be honest. Obviously it was an issue when he was married, but otherwise? GAH it's so weird. (Although I do not know how I'd feel if they started dating, that would probably be too much for me, like - the actual confirmation of it, I can't see it. I guess I like them angstier.) And yeah, it does seem like this is what Alison wants, which is weird, but then, she is a masochist. XD

Yeah, the whole thing with her offloading to him a little bit but being careful because she knows it's hard for him - that's what I imagine too. And it's so interesting that it's coming out in the songs.

I definitely think Jack could've played a big part in the way their stage dynamic has changed. I think Jamie's jealousy is a much bigger deal than he'll ever admit and just seeing the way Alison behaved with Jack onstage was hard for him, so for him to know that something came of it...it's so much worse, too, because it's not like Jack is just some random guy - Jack is in SUCH a similar position to Jamie, and was performing beside Alison every night and getting all sexual tension-y like Jamie did, and fighting against it (for different reasons, but still). So for Jamie to know that Jack gave in, it's almost like Jack got there first, and it would feel like...I don't want to say that Alison would be like, tainted, but he would feel like Alison was already fulfilling a very similar kind of relationship now and that he might have missed his chance. Assuming nothing happened between Jamie and Alison in the past. Lol, this is so confusing with all the different possible scenarios.

Oooh I can also see Jamie getting really pissed about Alison and Jack's affair, and kind of drunkenly yelling at Jack about it, and Jack being like "You could just admit you're jealous, you know. It'd be a lot easier." And saying stuff about how this is all just because he regrets not taking the same chance that Jack did, etc etc. Oh god, and in any threesome situation, Alison would be SO torn between the two of them. I also sort of love the idea of like, a heated kiss happening while Jack and Jamie are fighting, and Jamie wanting to sort of sleep with Alison THROUGH Jack if that makes sense. Like experience what the two of them experienced together, because he can't do it any other way.

♥♥♥ Thank youuuuu. I'm so glad you liked it so much, seriously - I was feeling pretty doubtful by the end, like "what even IS this?" so that means a lot!!

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

FIRST OF ALL: I posted the fic! :D

I know, augh! And they've just released the video for Baby Says, did you see? I don't quite know what to make of it. Some people are saying the people singing are actors, and others are saying it's Alison and Jamie dressed up as each other. I honestly can't tell, but if it's the latter my head may explode from how inexplicably hot that is.

I agree, I think that with the tour atmosphere and everything it would be hard for them not to fall back into old habits. It's all very strange though - did you hear that Jack is apparently wearing his wedding ring again? Or wearing it on his left hand when he'd been wearing it on the right since the "divorce" or something? Sometimes I think he just does these things to mess with people.

I can't imagine Alison saying no to Jamie either. I can imagine her being apprehensive about the whole thing, but definitely not outright saying no. And then maybe exaggerating her apprehension to go along with his so as not to make herself appear too vulnerable, maybe. It is weird that, if Jamie's denial or refusal to see her that way started because she was so young, that it hasn't dissipated as they've grown older and the age difference has become far less significant. But I guess the denial has been repeatedly reinforced by other things, like the risk of ruining their chemistry etc.

Yeah, with Jack it's like...he would obviously have quite a bit of angst over his feelings for Alison, but he'd probably downplay that in front of Jamie out of a sense of competitiveness? Like saying he got her because he didn't get all caught up in his worries like Jamie, acting like it's no big deal etc. And UGH Jamie would just be so totally blindsided by the fact that it's so obvious to Jack, and I think he'd get really mad about that, because it's almost like Jack knows something about Jamie that even JAMIE doesn't know.

Why is it so easy to imagine that Jamie would kind of get off on Alison/Jack in a weird masochistic way? Like, he'd hate the fact that they were together, but because their relationship has parallels to his and Alison's, he'd be so curious about it at the same time. And sort of want to vicariously experience things. FOR EXAMPLE if he somehow ended up in a situation where he could watch them having sex (and they, or Alison at least, didn't know he was there - because I don't think she'd knowingly do that in front of him) I think he would find it exciting, even though he'd also be sort of tortured by it.

[likecharity.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, I know what you mean. Because I feel like, if Alison did come to terms with her feelings for him, she'd be so aware of his denial and that would make her not want to try. OR she'd actually believe that he doesn't have any of the same feelings, which would put her off trying as well - and be even more heartbreaking. I think they would both have to be in roughly the same place, and it's really hard to imagine that happening.

I'm glad you liked the way I wrote it in my fic. I wanted to show that they were beginning to get back on the same wavelength, so I didn't want the kiss to be onesided in any way - like Alison kissing him and him being startled but gradually kissing her back, or anything like that. It needed to be like, they both wanted the same thing at that same moment. And Alison moving in for the kiss but hesitating, and then Jamie actually taking the leap - it seemed to work.

Oh my god, I totally understand the whole fic-expansion issue. That's how mine got so long! I just kept wanting to explore so many things. Hnnnng I'm SO in favour of young!Jamie/Alison interaction, you don't even know.

And any kind of Alison/Jack/Jamie shenanigans. Oh my god, the voyeurism thing, yes pleeease. Seeing them backstage together would work so well, because like - seeing the SHOW and them not knowing he's there would be a form of voyeurism in itself, especially if it's the first (or one of the first) he's been to and he's not sure what to make of the sexual tension. So he has like this dread/sinking feeling about what it might mean, and at the same time he can't take his eyes off them, and also it feels sort of like an out-of-body experience (like he said that one time). And then to actually have it all CONFIRMED backstage...SO MANY COMPLICATED FEELINGS.

Also: the Baby Says video - it IS them, isn't it? They're weirdly well-disguised and I think I sort of couldn't quite believe it, because it seemed too amazing to be true. I want some behind-the-scenes photos where we can see them clearly. Auugh and I just keep thinking of the two of them joking around pretending to be each other, and role reversals and roleplaying and hnnnng.